AMP light stays on

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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:59 pm

markvii_chick,
You may have covered this before, but under the rubber boot (large wire) if you test for voltage, you should have the same voltage as the battery. (12 volts nominal) (Illustration below) Also check for battery voltage at the voltage regulator at the yellow wire with a white stripe. You can unplug the regulator to check this. If you don't have battery voltage at either of these wires, run a new wire to the solenoid connected to the post/connection illustrated below. If you must replace the large wire, use at least a #8 automotive wire, with a #12 fuse link spliced in line with the #8 wire, near the solenoid. Tape off the old wire that you remove from the alternator. Route any new wires carefully if you must replace them. The plug that is 12" from the alternator does not need to be there. You can use splices for all three wires in place of the plug. (Don't forget to disconnect the battery before cutting or splicing ANY of these wires.

You can also remove a wire from another MODEL of Lincoln by using a razor blade to carefully cut the harness open between the solenoid and the alternator. This gives you everything you need, including the fuse link and at least one of the necessary cable ends. If you need to purchase these parts, you can find all of them at your local parts store.

Image

Image

These pictures were taken on a 1989. The location of the wires on your alternator may be different as they can be oriented 4 different ways, but no matter which side they are on, they look and work the same.

Hope this helps.

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:38 pm

StangMark wrote:Image

Ive had a very similar problem with my Mark. My alt. wouldnt charge and I was back and forth having the system checked at Autozone. Sometimes it appeared to be charging and others, not. During my last trip to Autozone I decided to wiggle the connection at the alternator while it was being tested and sure enough I had a bad connection.

I would have to say your problem lies in the alternator connection. The yellow wire shown in the pic turns the alt. on and the green wire tells the indicator light it is charging. Have your bro wiggle the connection while you watch the indicator light.
Hope that helps.


The above illustration shows the wrong alternator. That illustration shows the dual hot wire, plug in style. Functionally, the ignition wire is the same, and except that the battery wire is a single wire, it does represent how the circuit works. Absent in the illistration is the external field wire. The power plug on those have serious issues at the plug. It is also an internal voltage regulator model. (I have the same one on my truck and it is known for frying the connector for the output) The Mark VII has a separate V-reg and two small wires that run directly from the V-reg to the alternator. (Field & stator)

Image

Image

The field (FLD), stator (STR) and battery (BAT) connections are labeled on the alternator. The ground is not used. The field and stator connections run directly from the voltage regulator to the alternator. No place else.

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:57 pm

Yep, thats it!
I always thought it was a 2G too. <shrug> I went to a 3G on one of mine as well. I do like it!

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby Magic Al » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:34 pm

Well here's a connection utilizing a direct wire to the alternator. The fuse link is a 14 guage & the wire used was a 10 guage as I recall. That brown wire @ the positive post is the fuse link. The wire runs inside the loom shown in the middle of the photo, tied to the A/C line. Then it continues to the back of the alternator. This wire is in addition to the original wiring still in place.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby markvii_chick » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:05 am

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: You guys ROCK! Thanks!
I (um, my brother) will get down to this first thing in the morning!
THANKS AGAIN ALL!!!!!

PS
*Just* in case, that straight wiring won't harm anything will it?
Thought I'd ask *just* in case all else fails. But I printed this page out for my bro to read.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:35 am

Magic Al's setup should do the trick. A fuse link would be nice, but the plastic loom is the way to go! Verify that you have power (battery & ignition) at the voltage regulator and the stator and field wires have continuity between the voltage regulator and alternator. There is nothing else! If all that checks out, jerk the alternator and voltage regulator off the car and demand an exchange. Something is wrong with one or the other, regardless or their tests.

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby markvii_chick » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:20 pm

THAT DID THE TRICK! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The AMP light is off, alternator is charging, everything is bright like it was before!

That set up did the job! And it was the connector, it wasn't allowing the right amount of anything in. My brother explained it to me but I can't remember a thing, but after testing it with the car on/off, continuity-wise it wasn't doing a thing; this is in regards to the two thin wires. Charge wire checked fine. Upon closer inspection the two thin wires were literally rotted out from 20yrs of age.

THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!

Now I will spend my afternoon washing my car, detailing it and getting it back to being the beautiful awesome car that it is 8-)
Thanks again!
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby junkyardkat » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:35 pm

Glad that you got it fixed and everything is working now. 8-) :mrgreen: :D

Hate it when those little things get ya and you can't figure them out. :?
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:46 pm

markvii_chick wrote: ....Now I will spend my afternoon washing my car, detailing it and getting it back to being the beautiful awesome car that it is 8-) ....


That's what it all about! Have fun!

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby JoshMcMadMac » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:10 pm

gadget73 wrote:The charge wire can be replaced with ordinairy heavy guage wire. You may not be able to find the original exact piece. I would probably jsut cut it above the plug, and use a suitable crimp connector to tie in a piece of 8 ga wire. You may need to go to a napa or something to get a suitable splice for wire of that size, the ones you'll commonly find are only good to 10 ga.


Crimping 8ga wire makes me scared. Just replace the whole thing, end-to-end with the appropriate terminations. 8-)
2005 LS V8: Stock.

(SOLD 07/09)
1992 Mark VII LSC SE: FR500's, KYB's, Kenny Brown C/C plates, subframe connectors, 4.10's, 190lph fuel pump, smog delete, U/D pulleys, T-5, 3G, Mark VIII fan, adjustable FPR, 70mm MAF, 65mm TB, ported Cobra intakes w/ spacer, ported GT40 heads w/ valve job, 1.72 rockers, XE270hr-14 cam, BBK headers, 2½" exhaust w/ off-road X-pipe.
270hp 305ft.lb.

(SOLD 11/07)
1989 Mark VII BULLITT: Shaved trim, emblems, antenna, trunk latch cover, door handles. 100% custom interior, 35% tint, 17" Bullitts, 1800watt custom audio.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby gadget73 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:58 pm

JoshMcMadMac wrote:
Crimping 8ga wire makes me scared. Just replace the whole thing, end-to-end with the appropriate terminations. 8-)


Gotta connect it to the fuse link somehow, unless you're eliminating the fuse completely. I generally assume most people aren't equipped to solder a connection of that size, so a large crimp connection is usually the only choice. My Towncar has the original fuse link stuff replaced with a 150 amp breaker, and its connected with two cables, both with an eye at each end. Those breakers are about 30 bucks though. Other options would be a stereo system fuse block, but if one is trying to do things to retain stock appearence, then thats sort of out of the question.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby JoshMcMadMac » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:14 pm

gadget73 wrote:Gotta connect it to the fuse link somehow, unless you're eliminating the fuse completely. I generally assume most people aren't equipped to solder a connection of that size, so a large crimp connection is usually the only choice. My Towncar has the original fuse link stuff replaced with a 150 amp breaker, and its connected with two cables, both with an eye at each end. Those breakers are about 30 bucks though. Other options would be a stereo system fuse block, but if one is trying to do things to retain stock appearence, then thats sort of out of the question.

True enough, although my feeling is that soldering is such a simple task, and DIY'er should be outfitted to do so. I have used those breakers as well. They are not cheap, but in a situation where a hi-amp fuse is needed, they pay for themselves the first time you would have to replace that Mega-Fuse. 8-)
2005 LS V8: Stock.

(SOLD 07/09)
1992 Mark VII LSC SE: FR500's, KYB's, Kenny Brown C/C plates, subframe connectors, 4.10's, 190lph fuel pump, smog delete, U/D pulleys, T-5, 3G, Mark VIII fan, adjustable FPR, 70mm MAF, 65mm TB, ported Cobra intakes w/ spacer, ported GT40 heads w/ valve job, 1.72 rockers, XE270hr-14 cam, BBK headers, 2½" exhaust w/ off-road X-pipe.
270hp 305ft.lb.

(SOLD 11/07)
1989 Mark VII BULLITT: Shaved trim, emblems, antenna, trunk latch cover, door handles. 100% custom interior, 35% tint, 17" Bullitts, 1800watt custom audio.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:23 pm

In as much as I'm not a huge proponent of crimp connectors, they do work quite well. They are mil-spec approved and used in almost ALL electronics, from automotive to power company grids. Fuse links most often come with a crimp connector already installed. As long as they are properly crimped, they will carry the full load of the wire and last forever.

Image
(typical commercially available replacement fuse link)

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby oldschool1 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:10 am

markvii_chick wrote:THAT DID THE TRICK! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

...

<A tear comes to OS's eye>

Isn't a cool cool cool feeling when a game plan comes together?

At night, doesn't the inside of your Mark VII look brighter than your living room?

This thread makes me all warm and fuzzy inside ... the preservation, restoration, and maintenance of Lincoln Mark VIIs is why we're here.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby JoshMcMadMac » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:31 am

artbaileyjr wrote:In as much as I'm not a huge proponent of crimp connectors, they do work quite well. They are mil-spec approved and used in almost ALL electronics, from automotive to power company grids. Fuse links most often come with a crimp connector already installed. As long as they are properly crimped, they will carry the full load of the wire and last forever.


They definitely have their applications. The military is not too keen on using them from my experience, though.
2005 LS V8: Stock.

(SOLD 07/09)
1992 Mark VII LSC SE: FR500's, KYB's, Kenny Brown C/C plates, subframe connectors, 4.10's, 190lph fuel pump, smog delete, U/D pulleys, T-5, 3G, Mark VIII fan, adjustable FPR, 70mm MAF, 65mm TB, ported Cobra intakes w/ spacer, ported GT40 heads w/ valve job, 1.72 rockers, XE270hr-14 cam, BBK headers, 2½" exhaust w/ off-road X-pipe.
270hp 305ft.lb.

(SOLD 11/07)
1989 Mark VII BULLITT: Shaved trim, emblems, antenna, trunk latch cover, door handles. 100% custom interior, 35% tint, 17" Bullitts, 1800watt custom audio.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby markvii_chick » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:02 am

oldschool1 wrote:
markvii_chick wrote:THAT DID THE TRICK! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

...

<A tear comes to OS's eye>

Isn't a cool cool cool feeling when a game plan comes together?

At night, doesn't the inside of your Mark VII look brighter than your living room?

This thread makes me all warm and fuzzy inside ... the preservation, restoration, and maintenance of Lincoln Mark VIIs is why we're here.


Yes it does feel good and yes its way brighter on the inside than before :mrgreen:
Thanks AGAIN!!! Now back to restoring the cosmetics here and there :P
Ya know, the minor stuff 8-)
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby JoshMcMadMac » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:58 am

markvii_chick wrote:Yes it does feel good and yes its way brighter on the inside than before :mrgreen:
Thanks AGAIN!!! Now back to restoring the cosmetics here and there :P
Ya know, the minor stuff 8-)


Glad to hear it worked out for you. 8-)
2005 LS V8: Stock.

(SOLD 07/09)
1992 Mark VII LSC SE: FR500's, KYB's, Kenny Brown C/C plates, subframe connectors, 4.10's, 190lph fuel pump, smog delete, U/D pulleys, T-5, 3G, Mark VIII fan, adjustable FPR, 70mm MAF, 65mm TB, ported Cobra intakes w/ spacer, ported GT40 heads w/ valve job, 1.72 rockers, XE270hr-14 cam, BBK headers, 2½" exhaust w/ off-road X-pipe.
270hp 305ft.lb.

(SOLD 11/07)
1989 Mark VII BULLITT: Shaved trim, emblems, antenna, trunk latch cover, door handles. 100% custom interior, 35% tint, 17" Bullitts, 1800watt custom audio.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby IndyDave » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:54 pm

I'd sure like to see those images. Looks like it has been a few years. I tried to reconcile the links to the current Gallery setup but no luck.

My battery was shot so I bought a new one. Bought a new voltage regulator also. I took the alternator out and I'm going to get it checked. I want to look over everything before putting it all back in and firing up the car again.

Anyone have any images of the wires / connections "Magic Al" posted? Not saying I necessarily need the direct wire, but would like to understand exactly what solved markvii_chick's problem.

:)


Magic Al wrote:Well here's a connection utilizing a direct wire to the alternator. The fuse link is a 14 guage & the wire used was a 10 guage as I recall. That brown wire @ the positive post is the fuse link. The wire runs inside the loom shown in the middle of the photo, tied to the A/C line. Then it continues to the back of the alternator. This wire is in addition to the original wiring still in place.

http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Galler ... .sized.jpg

http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Galler ... .sized.jpg

http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Galler ... .sized.jpg
Image Image
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby oldschool1 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:18 am

Image

Image

Image

It's a good thing the Club maintains back ups for one year.

The original pictures were found and are slated for deletion 2012/11/01.

Since they are of value as a reference, they have been copied and reloaded to the Club's server and all references to them (in this thread), have been edited to point to their new permanent home. http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Gallery/album094

I need a nap :)
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby IndyDave » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Thanks John! I appreciate it although I feel like I baited you into digging them up. You deserve a good, long nap! ;)

oldschool1 wrote:...It's a good thing the Club maintains back ups for one year.

The original pictures were found and are slated for deletion 2012/11/01.

Since they are of value as a reference, they have been copied and reloaded to the Club's server and all references to them (in this thread), have been edited to point to their new permanent home. http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Gallery/album094

I need a nap :)
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:11 pm

Cool, it sounds like others have bypassed the dash light to keep the bulb from stopping charging of the battery. I had my radio and the dash section out that includes the amp light. I started the car at one point to raise the suspension, and it took me a while to notice that the voltage was low. Plugging the dash light connector back in made the alternator charge properly. They should have put the bulb on a relay circuit, not inline to the alternator.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby lpjbird » Fri May 10, 2013 9:43 pm

Magic Al wrote:Well here's a connection utilizing a direct wire to the alternator. The fuse link is a 14 guage & the wire used was a 10 guage as I recall. That brown wire @ the positive post is the fuse link. The wire runs inside the loom shown in the middle of the photo, tied to the A/C line. Then it continues to the back of the alternator. This wire is in addition to the original wiring still in place.

Image

Image

Image


Hi Guy's, I know this is an older discussion although I'm having this problem on my 1985 continental base 5.0. I have replaced the battery, voltage regulator, alternator & solenoid in the last couple days only to have no results in fixing the problem of the battery going dead. Just 2 weeks before the speedo, fuel, and odometer lights went out & still are. One day I noticed the AMP light went on when I started the car but went dimmer & dimmer as I drove until it went out, then I started to feel the engine missing or chucking here & there, then the heater blower started on it's own and the clock and all the warning lights started flashing and the car died. I had a guy jump start me but it took 15 minutes for it to charge enough to start and only ran for a few miles when the same thing happened, that's when I started replacing things. The battery that I had was only a couple years old and I never had a problem with it but I replaced it anyway. I have taken the dash apart and checked best I could all the connections, the bulbs in the speedo unit were all good but after putting it all back together it still didn't work. So here I am today, frustrated, spent a small fortune and scratching my head. I came upon this site and am so relived that all this information is here, what a great site. Any suggestions would be wonderful. Thanks JR
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby artbaileyjr » Sun May 12, 2013 8:08 pm

Hi JR. Glad you stopped by.
You said that you changed the voltage regulator. That's kinda' what it sounds like.
Some folks make the mistake of plugging the voltage regulator wires in before it's attached to the chassis. It immediately becomes a paperweight.
Also, I am not completely familiar with the '85, but there ~should~ be a harness plug just downstream of the alternator. That thing will sometimes melt. Check the harness carefully. If that plug is melted, simply cut the wire at each side if the plug and splice them together.

The other thing to check is the continuity of the wires from the voltage regulator to the alternator. If you pull the two wire plug out of the alternator and unplug the plug at the voltage regulator, you will see that two wires have the same colors. Check those wires with a VOM to make sure that they have continuity. Also, check them to ground to make sure that one of them is not grounded someplace. Again... Do this while they are disconnected at both the alternator and the voltage regulator.

Lastly. Verify that you got the correct voltage regulator. The parts guy may have been a noodnick!

Let us know what you find, and we'll go from there.

... And Welcome!

Art
..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

Image
... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
1991 SE, Black - 1991 LSC, Currant Red - 1991 LSC, White - 1991 SE, Currant Red. All straight, licensed, garaged and completely dependable.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby oldschool1 » Mon May 13, 2013 4:18 am

Art,
You just summed up about four years worth of my experiences with my (former) 1984 and (former) 1989. If it weren't for Club Members sharing thier experiences, I would have had TWO 3900 pound door stops.

Anyone with pre-1990s could benifit from checking these items and replacing them.
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Re: AMP light stays on

Postby lpjbird » Mon May 13, 2013 10:15 am

artbaileyjr wrote:Hi JR. Glad you stopped by.
You said that you changed the voltage regulator. That's kinda' what it sounds like.
Some folks make the mistake of plugging the voltage regulator wires in before it's attached to the chassis. It immediately becomes a paperweight.
Also, I am not completely familiar with the '85, but there ~should~ be a harness plug just downstream of the alternator. That thing will sometimes melt. Check the harness carefully. If that plug is melted, simply cut the wire at each side if the plug and splice them together.

The other thing to check is the continuity of the wires from the voltage regulator to the alternator. If you pull the two wire plug out of the alternator and unplug the plug at the voltage regulator, you will see that two wires have the same colors. Check those wires with a VOM to make sure that they have continuity. Also, check them to ground to make sure that one of them is not grounded someplace. Again... Do this while they are disconnected at both the alternator and the voltage regulator.

Lastly. Verify that you got the correct voltage regulator. The parts guy may have been a noodnick!

Let us know what you find, and we'll go from there.

... And Welcome!

Art


Alright, thanks for all the information Art, I'm going out there now and figure this one out. I'll keep you posted on any progress, I hope I didn't plug in the VR before mounting, can't recall but I did have the batt disconnected. Thanks again.
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JR Bondy; Is the proud owner of a 1985 Continental Base -w- 5.0
If I knew I was gonna live this long I would've taken better care of myself. (Bobby Lane)
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