My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

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My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:54 pm

Here's the skinny on my other lincoln, a 1995 Lincoln Mark VIII. Prepare to read :!:

Well around winter time last year I was chasing a mysterious leak behind the valve cover on the right side of the engine. Thought it was the heater bypass hose that runs under the intake valves, bro thought it was the same as well. The car was overheating slightly and in the rear of the valve cover you can see water leaking onto the valves.

My fiance had one of his 'friends' (who also drives a Mark VII ha ha), came over to *help* take the intake valves off to find this mysterious leak. Long story short the guy never came back to put the TONS of screws/bolts/stuff back together. Leak not found, evidently. Couldn't find fiance's 'helper' friend, he's in jail now. Hmm.

Towed the car to a particular repair shop to put all this chaos back together. They did, happily.
Car cranked for a few minutes, idled fine and then had a horrid skip! The guy pulled the spark plugs out and found a crushed washer had fell inside the engine and tells me the valves are bent. It will cost a bit to pull the heads, machine them and put them back on. Around about $800+ yet stressed the bottom part of the engine will go soon. I know, I have heard such tales before- as I told him. Don't let the gender fool you, I am not *totally* car illiterate.
I wished I had ask to listen to the car... fyi always ask to listen. My mistake.

Anyhow he (repairman) suggested I replace the engine with one of his own. Nope. I had one already bought, a back up, heard run. Crank turns. Oil clean. He and his cronies installed the engine, stressing it was a PITA to do and how they will NEVER work on a Mark VIII ever /again/. At first the engine control fuse kept blowing. They fixed that. They crunk the engine, it ran and LOCKED UP :o :!:

This is where it gets weird.
From their own mouths (wish I recorded it!) they said every time they install a engine they crank it up before putting fluids in, to see if it runs. When I confront them about it (who cranks a engine without checking the oil?!!) They said they poured oil in AFTERWARDS and it spewed out the side. Now they want me to pay the repair bill of $800 (their magic number?) for a car I cannot drive. Stating the engine was no good to begin with. I guess not, no engine is good if it ran without oil! They spun the crank before installing it, bro spun it. The person we bought the engine from seen it run in the wrecked car it was pulled from.

Another customer, a friend of the family took his classic Cadillac to said shop. This was before he knew I took my Lincoln there. Same thing, the engine 'went' and they suggested he buy one of *their* engines. He did and it was a dud; not only did it spew oil, it smokes like a freight train. He was able to drive it but it smoked! Clearly their engines are crap and trying to make people kick out extra $$$ for bad engines. I wonder if they put one of their dud engines in and kept mine?! Or installed it without oil so I kick out more $$$ for a dud engine? Nothing surprises me!
Times like this I wish I knew how to swap out engines! Grrrr! Sorry for the rant.

So my question is, should I pay them the full $800, half or what? I would say half, because I can't drive the thing!
And no I am NOT scrapping it.

Opinions? Suggestions? Mark VIII engines can spin at the crank and lock up when ran?
They (shop) laugh at the notion of me taking them to court and I have threaten to do so, they said since it was my engine the damage is my fault. Whenever I or my brother ask to speak with the manager, he is ALWAYS not there or trying to avoid us! Might have to call the local news...
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by markvii_chick on Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby oldschool1 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:44 pm

Under any circumstances, do NOT remove the vehicle from the property nor pay anything until your attorney contacts them.

Give the cash to an attorney FIRST THING MONDAY MORNING! You will receive an answer by Monday night.
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:13 pm

I will surely call around first thing tomorrow then!
Poor car sat there far too long, since I have been waiting for their boss to respond.

So do I have a case against them? I'm asking because they kept throwing "Its your engine its YOUR fault" at me.
Yet the crank spun, yet suddenly it locks up?!!
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby CDW6212R » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:46 pm

That is hard to hear about. There is a bunch of things unknown in all of that which help the shop get away with things.

The key factor is whether you can obtain proof that they actually didn't put oil in the "new" engine or be sure it was full before starting it. From a legal standpoint if you sue them they can start over by lying and saying they did check the oil and say it was fine. Then it becomes your word against theirs about whether they actually admitted to you that they didn't make sure it had oil.

If you can prove that the shop didn't verify that the oil level was correct, I think there's a good chance that you can make them pay for that engine(what it cost you), and the labor for the swap(give you your money back or drop that charge).

It does sound like a shady shop. The key will be what you can prove that they caused, or else what salesmanship could persuade them to swap another engine in at no cost to you. Unless there is more to the story it doesn't look like you have any other pressure you can use to make them do the right thing. So it should come down to the oil level in the engine at start up. I would try to get another statement from them about what they did, in a conversation that hopefully gets them to tell the truth again. If that can happen, you need either a good witness to that conversation, or a recording of it. In most states it is legal for one person to record a conversation and it be used as evidence in court.

If you can get that kind of proof, that may be enough to use to persuade them to fix the car, but only if they are not total scum who would sabotage the next job. If they might be that kind of low life, I'd get the proof, and go straight to court with it. You cannot make deals with people would cheat you every single time you dealt with them. Then you need the authorities, and hope. Best of luck,
Don
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:09 pm

I have a strong hunch they would only just sabotage the car. They REALLY hate it *now*.
They made it clear they will NOT touch that car any more, or any other Lincoln Mark VIII /at all/.
They said it was *harder* than a Cadillac Northstar engine (!!!). I'd wish they told me all this before touching the thing.

*****If***** I cannot get another admission, what's next? Fork out the $800?
My brother says to just pay half and tow the car back home and try again somewhere else.
When we try to discuss this with the manager, of course he is either hiding out or avoid us at all cost. Which I find weird.

Though times like this I wished I documented every teeny tiny step. When the engine was here at home on a stand, it had oil in it- but without physical proof of which, I may be S.O.L :(
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby artbaileyjr » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:46 pm

After reading this, and having pulled a few wrenches myself, here is a hard and fast rule. YOU NEVER; NEVER; NEVER; NEVER Start an engine without oil! PERIOD!!!! Under NO circumstances is it necessary, acceptable, reasonable or beneficial to do so; FURTHER, It is incumbent upon THEM to verify that the engine had ALL NECESSARY FLUIDS installed in it before starting it unless you SPECIFICALLY agreed that YOU would start the engine after delivery and they would simply bolt it in.

If they told you that this is what they do, then I would do what Oldschool advises! I would insist that they release the car immediately and then file a civil action asking for a replacement engine. Under NO circumstances would I pay them ANYTHING, and I would make that VERY CLEAR to the owner.

I say this with all due respect.... They are trying to REAM YOU!!!

Also, immediately report the incident to the State Bureau of Consumer Affairs; Division of Automotive repair. (File a complaint)

One more thing... Mark VIII's ARE a pain in the ass to work on! That's why I drive Mark VII's! (But they are supposed to be professional mechanics... THEY should know this!)

Art
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:57 pm

Thank you so much for the advice!

Only thing that I am aware of similar to Cali's BAR is the BBB. Which on another car that went through a similar incident, didn't fare too well. In that case the car ran, the shop called for me to pick it up, the engine suddenly 'went'. But that shop did refund my money. Repair? No. After all this I am seriously considering in learning how to swap engines. This is crazy.
Got engine hoist and tools, will learn!

Anyhow, went by the shop with my Mark VIII today, you guessed it the manager is not there. The workers said they will tell him I came by and to call. Which I doubt, its been over five months- the guy never calls. Every other day I have been keeping an eye out for his "Hummer" to show up lately (before it did), it never does. He even moved his yacht off the repair yard suddenly...hmm...

And lo and behold the shop has a FLOCK of MORE cars all in need of some sort of MAJOR engine work, rotting away along with my shiny black Lincoln. I am taking pictures of the place and posting it; the place is slowly becoming a little junkyard!

LOL, I agree Art on Mark VIII's; they are rather interesting in terms of repairs. All the more why I love my Mark VII.
Though this particular Mark VIII was a gift, my last VIII was stolen and still MIA and well, I never quite gotten over it. I just have bad luck with Mark VIII's!

Plan b, speak with a lawyer. Keep you all posted.
The car sat far too long, the owner had WAY too much time to contact me and never has or tried.
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby artbaileyjr » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:19 pm

..... It's more about the people, than it is about the cars .....

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... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:51 pm

Many thanks!!!!
Keep you all posted! The battle begins tomorrow :twisted:

While reading up on the link provided, I did a quick BBB check and came across this of said shop:

http://www.bbb.org/central-georgia/busi ... a-ga-14164

Graded D-? I wish I seen this WAY sooner! They do great muffler work, admittedly. Engine work? No!
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby bigmark303 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:01 am

Speak with a Lawyer its always free. Explain to them what you have explained on this site to us. By no means though refer to this site or thread as it can result in the shop being able to not only use this against you but also pursue you for slander of their name under circumstances that are questionable.

Pretty much all you can do is sit down and speak to a lawyer. To be completely honest it was your engine that was provided and as much as it may not be true your engine was bad if nothing has been documented they as well as you can say whatever and it wont mean anything because no proof is evident.

Be aware also if you do pursue them and get compensation for the engine you provided the lawyer will take as much as 30% for their fee, so figure that into the engine cost so you can break even at least or be prepared for less money.

Also dont remove the car from the lot, believe it or not they own your car untill you pay the bill or take them to court and win. You can be charged with theft if you have stated to them you have no intention of paying the bill and then remove the car.
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:37 pm

Nothing yet, but I do have appointments for two local lawyers this week coming...

Its my word against there's basically and with NO proof other than witnesses and the previous owner of the engine, its still not looking too good.

HOWEVER my fiance did point out something. He did ask them to replace the oil pan gasket (bought it and dropped it off along with oil, spark plug wires, spark plugs) on the 'new' engine before installing- basically something to do along with other hard to get hoses with the engine out. They did, or say they did replace the gasket.

My next question is if this engine *was* bad, wouldn't there be shavings in the oil pan when they dropped it? Or indicators it was bad?
When I took another car there and they done the same, everything checked good- and that car still drives to this day (provided my own engine on that one also).
Thanks guys...
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:38 pm

Pulling the pan off means the oil was gone unless they refilled it.

Didn't they say that they didn't add oil until they had started the engine? If they did that and you can get them to state that again in a provable way(witness, recording), then you have all you need to win the case. If they started the engine with no oil, they are responsible for the engine failing, whether it was bad before or not.
Don
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:28 pm

UPDATE!!!!
Its been a LONG time coming, but the repair shop that KILLED my Lincoln Mark VIII (and a number of other people's cars) has been CLOSED!!!!

It began when the owner was sent to jail for stalking and beating his ex-wife in front of their young children last year.
After he was arrested (and currently doing lengthy jail time), his repair shop was getting negative reviews online, word got around quick. They gradually lost customers, until it was shut down and building put up for sale.

I have met some of the other people who were burned by these guys, they all had similar stories. A few were lucky, but the majority had similar outcomes as mine. Basically they took their car to the shop for little things, like an oil change, water pump, or just simple exhaust work... In the end they said the shop told them they ALL NEED ENGINES!!! Wow.

Moral of the story? Karma is a *beep*!

RIP my beautiful black Lincoln Mark VIII (its in my signature pic).
You did not die in vain :cry:
Last edited by markvii_chick on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby CDW6212R » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:38 pm

My condolences for your car, I understand the feeling about a great car you lost. I'd love to have a Mark VIII, I could have bought a really nice 98 red LSC last year. I have no space for extra cars right now, maybe some day. I'd like to have an Aviator too now that you bring up the thought, those are getting scarce.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
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Re: My poor Lincoln Mark VIII =(, need opinions

Postby markvii_chick » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:29 am

I hadn't seen a Lincoln Aviator in ages. I was shock to see a 'Mark' truck the other day.

But yea, I miss my Mark VIII. I've come across others, but likewise, I ran out of room especially now that I had moved to a smaller home. I may get another one in the future, who knows.
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