transmission flush

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Re: transmission flush

Postby K MANIAC » Wed May 27, 2009 11:20 am

Hey Spooky:

The transmission fluid (aka: ATF) should be changed every 30,000 miles. What you need to know is that about half of the ATF will drain out when you remove the transmission oil pan and the other half of the fluid is trapped in the torque converter. Plus, there is a small quantity of ATF in the cooling lines between the transmission and the radiator.

There are two schools of thought regarding an ATF change. One method is the basic "change", where you drop the transmission oil pan, replace the filter , put it back together and refill with new ATF. NOTE: There is no drain plug on the transmission oil pan. This method replaces approximately half the fluid. The other method is the "flush", where you start with the "change" above, then disconnect the cooling return line, aim the return line into a drain pan, start the engine and pump the remaining old fluid out. Next, reconnect the line and add new fluid until full.

If I am not mistaken, these transmission use Dextron/Mercon ATF.

I am sure others will speak up on this topic. Let us know if you have any other questions or comments.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby K MANIAC » Wed May 27, 2009 11:26 am

One more thing: ATF is bright red in color. You check for proper ATF level in the transmission by driving the car so it is hot, letting the car idle (engine running) in "Park" and checking the level from the transmission dip stick. Keep the level between "Add" and "Full" and don't overfill. The ATF will start to turn brown as it ages in the transmission. A quick rule of thumb when checking ATF:

Red ATF = Good :D no need to change in the near future
Reddish Brown ATF = Fair :| should consider changing in the near future
Brown ATF = BAD :o change immediately!
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: transmission flush

Postby artbaileyjr » Wed May 27, 2009 1:17 pm

Spooky,
The dipstick is at the rear of the engine on the passenger side, between the engine and the air conditioning junk. (Kinda down in there) Look for a yellow dipstick.

Use Dextron/Mercon. (It should say on the dipstick... I think...)

Just for reference, all owner service checkpoints are painted or colored yellow.

Art
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Re: transmission flush

Postby tomnh » Wed May 27, 2009 1:43 pm

Dr. Spooky,

This is one service that I leave to the experts. I have a great Tranny place here and I let them do a complete service. Remove all old fluid and replace with new, adjust tranny and test. Costs a few bucks, but in my opinion, it is well worth it. :D 8-)
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Re: transmission flush

Postby K MANIAC » Wed May 27, 2009 3:45 pm

"Enos, you dipstick!!" - Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane, The Dukes of Hazzard, 1979

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The transmission dipstick on my Mark is that black looped thingie near the lower center of this picture.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: transmission flush

Postby K MANIAC » Wed May 27, 2009 3:54 pm

Hey Art - Are any of the bands adjustable on the AOD?? I recall that no band adjustment in necessary on the 1997 TC, but what about a Mark VII? :?
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: transmission flush

Postby artbaileyjr » Wed May 27, 2009 3:54 pm

Black? Hmmmm..... Gunna' have to take another look at mine. I wonder if it's a year thing?

Never mind the "yellow" thing! They come in black too! :shock: :roll:
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Re: transmission flush

Postby artbaileyjr » Wed May 27, 2009 3:59 pm

K MANIAC wrote:Hey Art - Are any of the bands adjustable on the AOD?? I recall that no band adjustment in necessary on the 1997 TC, but what about a Mark VII? :?

I'm not a transmission guy. I put it in gear and it either goes or it doesn't. <shrug>

If it doesn't go, I add fluid or install a TVB. (OK, I also change the fluid every year or so....) :oops:

Art
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1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
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Re: transmission flush

Postby K MANIAC » Wed May 27, 2009 4:17 pm

artbaileyjr wrote:
K MANIAC wrote:Hey Art - Are any of the bands adjustable on the AOD?? I recall that no band adjustment in necessary on the 1997 TC, but what about a Mark VII? :?

I'm not a transmission guy. I put it in gear and it either goes or it doesn't. <shrug>

If it doesn't go, I add fluid or install a TVB. (OK, I also change the fluid every year or so....) :oops:

Art

Well, the old Torqueflites as well as the modern miniature in my Shadow have adjsutable bands. The automatic in my (soon to be) father-in-law's Aerostar has adjustable bands. I guess I have to do some research into the AOD. I'm in no hurry since I only have 22,000 miles on the rebuild in my Mark.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby gadget73 » Wed May 27, 2009 5:14 pm

K MANIAC wrote:Well, the old Torqueflites as well as the modern miniature in my Shadow have adjsutable bands. The automatic in my (soon to be) father-in-law's Aerostar has adjustable bands. I guess I have to do some research into the AOD. I'm in no hurry since I only have 22,000 miles on the rebuild in my Mark.


No band adjustments on the AOD.


One thing that concerns me about a lot of places is that their idea of a trans service is to hook up a machine to the line, suck all the old fluid out and replace it with fresh. This does replace the fluid, but it ignores the filter in the pan, and it doesn't allow dropping of the pan to look for surprises. The filters don't usually clog, but changing the fluid without the filter to me is like doing half the job. The pan also should be inspected for any junk which might indicate a problem. There is usually always a little bit of something in there, but what you don't want to see are metal shavings, chunks, a thick sludgey film of clutch material, or really anything other than maybe a little bit of dirt and possibly a few specs of clutch material. Lots of crap in the pan usually indicates a problem that will become obvious at some point. If you've got some advance warning, you can at least start saving up for it.

I've actually installed a drain plug in one of my trans pans to make it easier to service. I can drain the pan, then drop it without making a big mess. The drain plug kit was less than 10 bucks and very easy to install. Just need a drill of the proper size.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby artbaileyjr » Wed May 27, 2009 5:32 pm

Spooky,
That is indeed the EGR.

Art
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... 1988 LSC 5 spd - Shifty ............... 1990 LSC SE - Trusty ............... 1991 LSC SE - Dusty ...
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.lincolnlandonline.com/index.html
1984 Base Turbo diesel, Silver - 1986 Bill Blass, Med Sandlewood, - 1988 LSC, Shadow Blue - 1988 LSC, Black, 5 spd -1988 Bill Blass, White - 1990 SE, Black
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Re: transmission flush

Postby fremar68 » Wed May 27, 2009 7:58 pm

Spooky:

I've got a buddy who works at a Transmission Shop who does my Transmissions. He performs after hours jobs on a discounted basis as requested by his friends. He uses the Machine that hooks up to the two (inlet and outlet) Transmission lines at the Radiator. He also drops the Transmission Pan first and removes the Transmission Filter before using the Machine. Once the Transmission and Torque Converter are drained (amount measured by the machine) he refills them with fresh fluid, then adds for the amount dropped from the Pan.

Like Tom said, for the small amount of money, you can't beat it. Then again, Tom and I are not as young as you are to be laying under a car doing that kind of work anymore.

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Re: transmission flush

Postby gadget73 » Thu May 28, 2009 5:40 pm

Oh I don't claim to like doing trans services. Its messy beyond my liking, however I just don't trust most places to do it right. Given the choice of getting messy or buying a trans, I'll get messy. As long as the pan is dropped, I'm pretty much OK with it. Its the ones that don't do the pan and filter that concern me. It just makes me think of changing the engine oil without doing the filter with it.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby alchemistoxford » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:26 pm

Thanks for all these helpful insights.

A question: What is the best fluid?

I have been advised to use Motorcraft Mercon-V.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:43 pm

The original fluid for the AOD was Type F, that was in the 80's. The ATF all makers have been designing for automatics has become slicker as time passes, which requires a different shift design. The older(AOD) is designed for the less slick ATF kinds, using Mercon V can create too much slippage during shifts. It will feel nice and smooth, but the less you feel a shift, the more slipping happens during the shift.

Long story short, stick with a high quality Type F or the next fluid, Mercon and Dexron III. You will easily find the Dexron III/Mercon in any parts store.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby robertbweltzien » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:26 pm

I use B&M Trickshift in my '89 LSC which is essentially type F with a proprietary additive package and blue dye. I also have the throttle cable set a little tight. I get good firm shifts and no problems for the past 40K. The fluid is also still clear. I add about a pint every year or so to compensate for a slight leak at the tail shaft.

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Re: transmission flush

Postby alchemistoxford » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Many thanks for these excellent suggestions.

After speaking with a technical advisor at Transmission Depot in Hudson, Florida - where they remanufacture and ship all over the world - I have decided not - repeat not to flush my 25-year old transmission with 138K miles on the odometer.

Here is what Transmission Depot told me. A flush is for a rebuilt transmission or for routine maintenance from new. If an automatic transmission (including the well-known Ford AOD) has not had routine changes at circa 30K intervals, do not change the fluid, for it could well cause slippage and failure within a relatively short period of time.

This is exactly what I have been told by two Senior Master Technicians, as well as two friends who manage separate AAMCO shops. A couple of years ago, I spoke with two former officers of the club who told me that their cars had 275K, and they never changed the ATF (and they set their cruise controls to 95 mph and their cars ran like swiss clocks).

Like others on this thread have reported, mine needs about one quart per year. Shifts are positive and smooth. When I need a new transmission, I will buy a rebuilt one (Transmission Depot sells AOD for $995 plus shipping).

I acquired my 1992 Mark VII LSC when it was 15 years old and only had 42K on the odometer. The ATF had never been changed, and it seems risky to begin flushing and changing ATF now.

Thanks, again!
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Re: transmission flush

Postby Portofino Blue » Fri May 19, 2017 11:23 am

alchemistoxford wrote:Many thanks for these excellent suggestions.

After speaking with a technical advisor at Transmission Depot in Hudson, Florida - where they remanufacture and ship all over the world - I have decided not - repeat not to flush my 25-year old transmission with 138K miles on the odometer.

Here is what Transmission Depot told me. A flush is for a rebuilt transmission or for routine maintenance from new. If an automatic transmission (including the well-known Ford AOD) has not had routine changes at circa 30K intervals, do not change the fluid, for it could well cause slippage and failure within a relatively short period of time.

This is exactly what I have been told by two Senior Master Technicians, as well as two friends who manage separate AAMCO shops. A couple of years ago, I spoke with two former officers of the club who told me that their cars had 275K, and they never changed the ATF (and they set their cruise controls to 95 mph and their cars ran like swiss clocks).

Like others on this thread have reported, mine needs about one quart per year. Shifts are positive and smooth. When I need a new transmission, I will buy a rebuilt one (Transmission Depot sells AOD for $995 plus shipping).

I acquired my 1992 Mark VII LSC when it was 15 years old and only had 42K on the odometer. The ATF had never been changed, and it seems risky to begin flushing and changing ATF now.

Thanks, again!

Interesting!!

I have heard this same advice in the past as well as contrary opinions of it. I tend to agree with you, especially with the corroboration from the individuals you mention.

Just to be clear, you initially mentioned that you would never do a flush on your 25 year old trans.. Are you also saying that you would not change the fluid by just dropping the pan and installing a new filter on a transmission of similar age, with limited or no service?

Interested to see your reply. Thanks!
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Re: transmission flush

Postby CDW6212R » Fri May 19, 2017 1:05 pm

There is no harm in changing ATF in any trans.

What is not understood is that many methods of trans servicing do more than just change some fluid. The other procedures often move debris around inside the trans, which by definition should not exist anyway. Every case of a trans failing after some kind of service, that is either bad coincidence, or there was contamination which was dislodged(moved around inside the trans, such as moving it from inside the VB, or into the VB) etc. Any debris inside an automatic is bad, it all has the potential to alter the shifting of the trans, which is controlled by the VB and solenoids etc.

These are somewhat complicated descriptions of what it means to have contaminants inside an automatic trans. All of it comes from wearing of parts, either hard parts or the normal wear items like frictions and steels. All of it is bad, and it's all created by abnormal functioning of the shift control system. A properly operating automatic will last for 200k+ miles, and not foul the ATF with debris. But you cannot detect when a trans is malfunctioning, unless it's serious. So the little stuff gets ignored(unknown).

Fine, the past owner or care of the trans is the cause. But that's not a reason to claim that changing old fluid is magically bad. It's not the fluid to worry about, it's the wear that exists, and you cannot always tell by looking at the ATF on the dipstick, or when it's drained. The issue is debris spread throughout the trans, things not visible in the fluid you are looking at.

So changing just ATF(and filter) is very good, always. But be careful about doing things which may cause unseen contaminants to move about inside the trans. When I get a vehicle and first work on it, I do the trans early on ... yes being worried about what may come. But leaving old fluid in(unknown quality of unknown age), that is not an option for me, I insist on knowing the quality/condition of all fluids/filters in my vehicles. I'm not driving on the hope of previous owners choices, by doing nothing. Regards,
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Re: transmission flush

Postby robertbweltzien » Sun May 21, 2017 5:45 pm

Yes, Don. I am a firm believer of TF changes and keeping the original auto tranny. That said, save for one (ultramatic 4 speed in a 91 Dodge Spirit V6) I never had any problems with the 20+ auto vehicles I have owned going back to cars from the sixties. When I bought my '89 LSC 14 years and 110K ago one of the first things I did was drain the pan and TC and replace the filter. Did it every 50K and set the throttle cable a little tight. I switched to B&M fluid a few years ago (50K) and the fluid is still transparent with firm shifts at 190K. The only issue I have ever had is a buzzing noise that went away after some WOT accelerations. However I have seen many rebuilds failing before reaching 50K!

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Re: transmission flush

Postby robertbweltzien » Sun May 21, 2017 9:09 pm

Oh and I wanted to say that the B&M fluid is no longer blue in color but is now a transparent, slightly gray color after 50K of normal use. Always been difficult to see on the stick, new or used. It doesn't smell burned but it doesn't have the pungent pineapple-like smell of new fluid. I was reading about Trick Shift again and some say the better friction quality will cause the clutches to wear faster. I dunno-when I drop the pan again we'll see what's in there. I Installed it to optimize shifting and longevity. It still shifts great. Your thoughts Don?

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Re: transmission flush

Postby CDW6212R » Mon May 22, 2017 12:07 pm

I put Trick Shift in my first LSC, and loved it for the 30k or so miles before I killed the car. It was always transparent, and I liked the blue color.

I have an issue with my current LSC, it is slower to shift and each shift isn't quite as good as it was. I tried to fix it by going through the VB and installing the sysko kit. That didn't fix it unfortunately, and I also used Trick Shift that I had left, stored away. My fluid isn't as transparent as when new, so I have some wear still happening, thus I haven't driven it in a year really. I like the fluid though, I've never read of any issues. I'm hoping to save this fluid, since it may only have 100 miles or so on it.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby robertbweltzien » Mon May 22, 2017 1:35 pm

Sorry to hear about your AOD woes, Don. Did you find metal particles and clutch material, like I always did with that old junky ultramatic? Overall, I read mostly positive things about our blue oil from drivers and tranny shops and I personally like the results. I'll drop the pan just for a filter change in the next month or so and report on anything I find in the pan. I hope I can find B&B T at AZ/AA/NA/OR/PB, otherwise I'll order it through Amazon.

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Re: transmission flush

Postby CDW6212R » Mon May 22, 2017 10:14 pm

My old fluid was darker with some material in it, but it was fluid about 15 years old and maybe 35k miles. I didn't drive it much for the first ten years I had it, and never did anything with the trans before(just fluid and filter when I bought it). I wish I had made the time to do the VB work back then, that would have helped I think. I'm still a ways from getting to this Lincoln, but I have the pieces to build a 4R70W for it.

I might not need an AOD for a while, and I do have the one from my first car, which I had the HD kit in and raised the shift points to more than 5600rpm. I rebuilt the engine and trans after parting out the car, and still have the AOD. I need to take it back apart and remove the really thin steels from the direct drum, and put in a mechanical diode(from 98+ 4R trans). Then it'd be a solid trans for an hotter engine.
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Re: transmission flush

Postby robertbweltzien » Tue May 23, 2017 10:08 am

Don, you sound like a transmission shop technician!

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