brake conversion

Discussion of NON STOCK, NON OEM swaps, upgrades, lowering, modifications, modifying, customizing, anything Lincoln Mark VII.

Re: brake conversion

Postby gadget73 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:40 pm

Whats wrong with the existing ABS system? Most of the time, if you're on a budget its cheaper to fix whats there than to change it to something else.
86 Lincoln Town Car, HO swap, big brakes, lots of other stuff
91 LSC SE, triple black, United Exhaust 2.25" exhaust system, ES poly front bushings
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Re: brake conversion

Postby gadget73 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:46 pm

dbltap64 wrote:no grinding or screeching, just way too hard to push the pedal down to get it to stop. It's like the master cylinder is out. I was told by the mechanic that the ABS, booster and master cyclinder are all one unit and it's a very expensive fix. I'm new to this Mark VII thing so I'm unsure of what my options are. I thought I had read something about converting over to mustang parts and doing away with the ABS. Mustangs are a dime a dozen in our salvage yards so I thought that might be one way to go. Just looking for advice, thanks.


It may be as simple as replacing the relay. Yes, its all one unit, but its an electric motor that provides assist. When the relay fails (and it happens), you get no power to the pump, therefore no rear brakes and no assist. I believe the relay in question is the one closest to the ABS unit, mounted to the firewall. Relay is like 20 bucks or something, and certainly worth a shot before changing anything else.


The "scary expensive ABS unit" story is an old one for Mark VII owners. 95% of the world has no clue how to work on one, so they jump directly to telling the owner that its the $1200 ABS assembly when in reality it may be a cheap relay. The air suspension system is the other "big scary" system, and for the same reason. Armed with the factory shop manual and a voltmeter, you can troubleshoot a whole lot on these cars, and more often than not fix it for a reasonably small sum and with a whole lot less labor than changing it to something else.
86 Lincoln Town Car, HO swap, big brakes, lots of other stuff
91 LSC SE, triple black, United Exhaust 2.25" exhaust system, ES poly front bushings
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Re: brake conversion

Postby eightlives » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:54 pm

gadget73 wrote:

The "scary expensive ABS unit" story is an old one for Mark VII owners. 95% of the world has no clue how to work on one, so they jump directly to telling the owner that its the $1200 ABS assembly when in reality it may be a cheap relay. The air suspension system is the other "big scary" system, and for the same reason. Armed with the factory shop manual and a voltmeter, you can troubleshoot a whole lot on these cars, and more often than not fix it for a reasonably small sum and with a whole lot less labor than changing it to something else.


AMEN
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Re: brake conversion

Postby stark » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:46 pm

I have intermittent power brakes and im tired of chasing it and dealing with it. Im going to convert it with a 95 v6 master and fox booster. Also going to run a adjustable proportional valve. I will post up my results
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Re: brake conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:53 pm

stark wrote:I have intermittent power brakes and im tired of chasing it and dealing with it. Im going to convert it with a 95 v6 master and fox booster. Also going to run a adjustable proportional valve. I will post up my results


The best balanced match to the Mark VII brakes is the 93 Cobra booster and master cylinder. Those are both sized to work best with larger brakes, which we have. All the other Fox Mustang and most 94+ Mustang parts are sized for smaller brakes.

The 93 Cobra parts are readily available. You just have to work out the brake lines, and ABS controller/pump or combination valve. If you install another ABS unit(controller/pump), then you do not have to install a proportioning valve or combination valve.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: brake conversion

Postby stark » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:00 pm

I wasn't going to run abs on it. Just tired of not being able to stop need something asap tomorrow is the day off.
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Re: brake conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:06 pm

The braking power and pedal feel will not be good with the plain Fox or SN95 parts. Those are made for small front brakes, and drum brakes in the case of the Fox parts. You shouldn't spend time or money on parts that you will end up wanting to change. You should be able to get the 93 Cobra booster and master cylinder in little time. If you line up the parts ahead of time, they don't cost more than the other stuff really.

The combination valve that you will have to install for manual brakes will be the hardest part. Read up on what others have done with converting Fox Mustangs to rear discs. Those are basically close to what you will need to balance the front and back(proportioning valve). I read a lot of that and saw many different versions of the combination valves, plus most using additional manual proportioning valves.

Once I read that the ABS systems didn't use any external combination or proportioning valves, I decided that ABS is simpler to install for me. The brake lines are simple, two go from the MC straight to the ABS unit, and three go from there to the stock three lines. No valves, no other little parts to figure out and stick in the brake lines, nothing. Simply make five new lines to where ever you want to mount the ABS unit. The 94-98 ABS Mustang units should all do the job fine. If you don't hook up the wiring, the brakes still work. To wire those up is relatively simple considering we already have all of those wires in the Mark VII already.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: brake conversion

Postby Akurei14 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:48 am

I've heard this time and time again, yet, after having to change out 2 masters on mine, I'm ready to switch myself.
It isn't hard to troubleshoot, but after owning 2 cars with this system, I can tell you it's crap.
Too many parts to go bad, and most are expensive.
The real problem is that electricity is used for something that should be mechanical, hence making it far more prone to failure.
More parts, more complexity, more problems, just how it goes.... take it from me, I owned an 89 Jaguar, lol :D
The relay is cheap, but nothing else is.
If u do indeed switch you need:
93 Cobra Booster
93 Cobra Master (recomended)
porpotioning valve
or if u can find one, a 95 Cobra R master cylinder...


And whoever said SN95 brakes a smaller.....
I'm pretty sure they are bigger and better.
Hence why us mark guys swap SN95 parts into our front ends.
1990 Mark VII LSC SE Dark Titanium
Engine:
Fenderwell CAI
65mm TB
Explorer Upper and Lower Intake
u/d pulleys
a/c delete
smog delete
EGR delete
solid motor mounts
180* T-stat
14* Timing and 93 Octane

Trans:
T5 World Class
Pro 5.0 shifter
stock clutch setup
BBK quadrant, cable, and adjuster
double hump-crossmember
Custom 1 piece steel driveshaft

Exhaust:
BBK 1&5/8" shorties
Mac or H-pipe
Dynomax catback

Suspension:
Energy Suspension front control arm bushings
CHE lower rear control arms
CHE upper rear control arms
Hawk HPE Street front pads
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Re: brake conversion

Postby gadget73 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:59 pm

before you go changing the whole system over, have you replaced the pump relay yet? When it gets old, it can become intermittent.
86 Lincoln Town Car, HO swap, big brakes, lots of other stuff
91 LSC SE, triple black, United Exhaust 2.25" exhaust system, ES poly front bushings
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Re: brake conversion

Postby hy35f2t » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Akurei14 wrote:I've heard this time and time again, yet, after having to change out 2 masters on mine, I'm ready to switch myself.
It isn't hard to troubleshoot, but after owning 2 cars with this system, I can tell you it's crap.
Too many parts to go bad, and most are expensive.
The real problem is that electricity is used for something that should be mechanical, hence making it far more prone to failure.
More parts, more complexity, more problems, just how it goes.... take it from me, I owned an 89 Jaguar, lol :D
The relay is cheap, but nothing else is.
If u do indeed switch you need:
93 Cobra Booster
93 Cobra Master (recomended)
porpotioning valve
or if u can find one, a 95 Cobra R master cylinder...


And whoever said SN95 brakes a smaller.....
I'm pretty sure they are bigger and better.
Hence why us mark guys swap SN95 parts into our front ends.



Agreed not to mention my car weighs about 400lbs less then a normal mark 7.Also going to convert to manual brakes and steering.My 84 c10 had that and i had no issues stopping or tunring with 400hp so yeah.Also does the cobra master move more fluid?jw because theres a decent price difference.

EDIT :Nvm just found out the cobra master has a 1" bore master cylinder and a normal foxbody has a 20.6mm bore.
Nothing like listening to Devildriver and working on cars.
1990 mark 7-357w build with on3 turbo kit
1989 mustang lx vert-gt40p/tfs 1 cam/edelbrock intake/and maybe spray its my daily though.
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Re: brake conversion

Postby Akurei14 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:45 am

Yes the Cobra parts are made for more agressive driving and braking. Hence meaning they can tollerate a heavier car.
Tho the best way to upgrade the brakes is to swap in 96+ Mustang spindles, thus allowing usage of the decent ford factory options.
I plan on investing in dual pot calipers in the front on mine with slotted rotors and Hawk Pads. Rear I'm prolly gonna just do new calipers, hawk pads and slotted rotors.
And if you plan on auto crossing a Mark, please please please invest in a decent brake cooling setup aswell as a p/s fluid cooler.
Lots of weight and even if your already lighter, a cooler setup will run better and be more reliable!
1990 Mark VII LSC SE Dark Titanium
Engine:
Fenderwell CAI
65mm TB
Explorer Upper and Lower Intake
u/d pulleys
a/c delete
smog delete
EGR delete
solid motor mounts
180* T-stat
14* Timing and 93 Octane

Trans:
T5 World Class
Pro 5.0 shifter
stock clutch setup
BBK quadrant, cable, and adjuster
double hump-crossmember
Custom 1 piece steel driveshaft

Exhaust:
BBK 1&5/8" shorties
Mac or H-pipe
Dynomax catback

Suspension:
Energy Suspension front control arm bushings
CHE lower rear control arms
CHE upper rear control arms
Hawk HPE Street front pads
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Akurei14
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Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: Western, Ma

Re: brake conversion

Postby hy35f2t » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:43 pm

Akurei14 wrote:Yes the Cobra parts are made for more agressive driving and braking. Hence meaning they can tollerate a heavier car.
Tho the best way to upgrade the brakes is to swap in 96+ Mustang spindles, thus allowing usage of the decent ford factory options.
I plan on investing in dual pot calipers in the front on mine with slotted rotors and Hawk Pads. Rear I'm prolly gonna just do new calipers, hawk pads and slotted rotors.
And if you plan on auto crossing a Mark, please please please invest in a decent brake cooling setup aswell as a p/s fluid cooler.
Lots of weight and even if your already lighter, a cooler setup will run better and be more reliable!

By now everyone should know over heating parts/fluids is bad/
Nothing like listening to Devildriver and working on cars.
1990 mark 7-357w build with on3 turbo kit
1989 mustang lx vert-gt40p/tfs 1 cam/edelbrock intake/and maybe spray its my daily though.
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